HOP Germany and Netherlands
Posted by Bill Holler at 05:52, February 21st 2012.
Maybe I am the only one in this blog who uses his name to be easily identified. If you search in Google you will find out why I was so deeply involved with the HOP. Last week I called Frank Handrich from the HOP office in Augsburg. As you may know I was director of HOP Germany in the past before Sheile took over. So I was responsible for this German operation of HOP. During this telephone call I received a cold unfriendly reply from Frank, stating that he does not want to discuss things with me. Somehow he seemed to be brainwashed by Sheila & Co.
Anyway I gave him my information, information I have had first hand during my recent visit in the CC and the conversations with members of the CC board and other people including my private meeting with RAS and Donna. I also told him about RHS withdrawing from everything connected with HOP and his refusal to have his copyrighted material used by the present leadership of HOP. I told him about the ousting of Sheila and Jim Penner plus withdrawal of Jim Coleman from the present board.
Frank still was not interested listening to any of this and said that he would not believe this because it is not what he heard through the offocial route (Sheila & Co). That shows me that now they are closing not only their eyes (missing CC audience) but also their ears. They want to continue business as usual. As long as the donations are coming in, they will continue the shows in Germany; knowingly cheating the TV audience!
With HOP Netherland it is even worse. If you see their broadcasts, you will think that they invented the time machine from "Back to the Future". What you see there are RHS and Bobby preaching and you will see Don Neuen and everything we admire about the "good old times". What you will not see is the reality with the idiot offspring and the first-
So the HOP Netherland are continuing their thing, making money with canned HOP reruns.
This all is so sick! It is so unethical and un-
You may also write me directly: firstname.lastname@example.org or call me +49 175 7259859
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Bill Holler @ Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:04:30 +0000:
I think this is not the right context to mock Pastor Benny Hinn! He has nothing to do with that and he is not responsible for this entire mess!
40 year member @ Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:52:45 +0000:
Thank you DK -
Well, that is just weird. I am copying and pasting Bill Holler's comment here so 40-
Thanks Dk for checking. It does seem to be a problem -
40 year: It's right under my comment that starts with "Thanks for trying." It's time-
Bill you make some excellent points. I go back and forth all day over here about what if anything I can REALLY accomplish with this. My brain and reasoning tell me that this is a crime and needs to be pursued to the end. No matter if justice is done or not. However on the other hand there is a lot, a whole lot, to be said for the kind of grace you are showing here. You really have a very grounded view of this that perhaps I lack. So Im still stewing over here and wondering what happened and what the best way to handle it is. As Pastures said I do contradict myself on here. One day I'm on a witch hunt the next day its forgiveness time. I just cant seem to get past the issue of what this has done to a lot of folks. That is the real thing that bothers me since churches and religious organizations are supposed to help us all deal with this stuff no perpetrate it. Think I will go put an ice pack on my head and have an ice cream sandwich and think it all over. Again......
Bill Holler @ Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:06:10 +0000:
I do not have any actual figures, but back in 2009 the costs for airtime and staff plus printing etc. were higher than the donations coming in. So HOP Germany had to be subsidized by HOP U.S. For several years. But donations climbed up and we saved money on airtime costs. So they could turn a little profit by now. If so, I would guess it is only a very little surplus. They seem to need money as recently Sheila has asked the German viewers to donate 1.2 Mio USD this year. My guess is that donations so far are about 0.8 Mio at the most. But HOP Netherland had a bigger surplus like also HOP Canada. I do not know how much they feed back to U.S. because from todays standpoint I know that we were lied to in so many ways that it is impossible to say if such information was right or wrong. John did his part in the lying at that time. I feel that for me it is now becoming easier to let go and to let God taking over.
texgreenfield @ Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:35:43 +0000:
Wow. This just gets worse, sorry Bill. This is really a fine way to treat a long term supporter. Thanks for your efforts and obviously having to confront some former friends and colleagues that have now turned on you completely. I know this has really got to be a bad time. God Bless and we are praying for you over there.
40 year member @ Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:52:50 +0000:
Bill Holler -
Thanks for trying, Bill. I can only imagine how frustrating this situation is for you. Would you enlighten us in general about the financial arrangement between CCM in the U.S. and the international affiliates? Do the international offices pay for their local airtime and office expenses, then forward the remaining money to the CCM? And do you know a rough percentage of how much the international affiliates account for total HOP revenue? I guess that number might be in the bk docs, as well.
Bill Holler @ Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:29:06 +0000:
I think that I should also share with you that I called the Director International Ministry who is taking care of all international HOP affaires. His name is John Townend and he lives in Australia. The phone call was as frosty as my previous conversation with Frank. Now they think I am the bad guy, simply because I do not tolerate that this service was so badly damaged by the idiot offspring. When I was director of HOP Germany, they were very friendly with me (and of course my money). But now they turn bitter cold. It is like if you have been in a sect and after having moved out, you are suddenly the bad guy. The more I think about them all, Sheila and Jim, Gretchen, John Townend, Frank Handrich and the other supporters of these people the more I am convinced they would follow anybody. If that crook and criminal pastor-
Pastures thanks a lot for the attack. It doesn't even phase me. If I shrunk every time someone attacked me or wronged me in this life I would not be here now. Keep on trying but what you say is invalid and off base. I want disclosure too. I will not attack you like I unfortunately attacked Mr. Holler. My comments to him were misguided. Anything I say to you wouldn't be but why waste my time. How is the grass in that Pasture?
DK @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:45:12 +0000:
Pasters is still on the list of people who can post.
winkow @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:55:48 +0000:
Pasters: we? Did WE get kicked off a board?
Rohrflote @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:26:28 +0000:
I'm Not going to apologize to anybody for stating the facts that are right in the bankruptcy documents, if you are making references to Robert A. Schuller and his wife Donna being paid salaries/ benefits. READ THE DOCUMENTS, you will see it for yourself!! I am certainly NOT going to ever be sorry for stating the fact/ truth!! Everyone is entitled to each one's opinion!!!
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:53:56 +0000:
NO We dont think we will...TEX and many others in these blogs contradict themselves. And, am afraid to also say that TEX and many others in these blogs have slandered people that I care about...Did we ask for an apology? Your blog is two faced. And, we have no plans on sticking around...and we have copied a few of these slanderous, but very interesting statements in this blog for a new article and book. So, NO we dont think we will apologize.
winkow @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:43:08 +0000:
Pasters : care about the CC and care about others. Tex said nothing wrong. And especially nothing to be called what you called him. I expected to see an apology but evidently that is not forthcoming. For the rest of us, change your name to some more appropriate like a ... I'm sorry I don't think I'll say what I'm thinking.
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:05:53 +0000:
We are chill-
Would it help if any of us call the leaders in the German HOP? My knowledge of is first hand but it not current meaning up till a year ago. Some info though was in the last year but through a friend who still worked at CCM for RHS directly
winkow @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:00:24 +0000:
pasters: chill dude.
Rohrflote @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:42:10 +0000:
And after seeing this weekends Hour of power on t.v. and subjecting myself, to sitting through 2 full weekends of attending services at the cathedral, I'm certain many many congregants, WOULD LOVE the break from that praise group, and LOVE to see a new face!!! We can dream? right :)
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:30:10 +0000:
Honesty/Disclosure/Tell the Truth.
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:28:18 +0000:
Tex: Your ignorant...lol We want disclosure...That includes everybody in this Schuller dynasty that you stated that lied and took the money. In fact, you claim fraud...so why do you think Bobby and others are above that law or above those professional and ethical standards? You make NO sense...and we seriously doubt that people will ever-
Sorry meant to say -
does hop.de and/or hop.nl create their own material or is it supplied from Garden Grove. Are they splicing old material they already had or are the getting new 'old' material. If it is old media they already hd, media laws in those countries my command that it is rerun and new. If it is new material from Garden Grove then something isn't right (like that's a new thing). Does HOP.nl and HOP.de forward funds to the CCM? (Oh another stupid question? Of course the girls have in-
I don’t have a problem with someone flying Bobby over there and paying him to speak. I do have problems with the boats and etc. I think Bill is working pretty hard here so lets see what happens.
Rohrflote @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:12:47 +0000:
Bill: I am basing my comments on the bankrupty documents that I have read through very carefully, which SHOWED that Donna, and Robert A. Schuller received compensation in the years 2008, 2009, and mostly all of 2010. There was no payments in 2011, nor 2012. As far as whether he received a settlement from the cathedral, I think I rather wait till the final accounting is filed with the bankruptcy court, as this will tell us the truth as to HOW much, each and every person/ credito was paid, they have to file this within a certain period of time. I am currently looking into the law, to see the exact time frame. In the meantime, I personally have no problems if Robert V(Bobby) is paid for services he renders to the international congregation at large. He is VERY well liked by many, and I am sure people are very happy to see his face, and him preaching! For me a good day will be a weekend service where-
Who can answer your question? I think only the leadership of Netherland can. However I think that the expenses for the travelling will be paid by the HOP Netherlands. They seem to be doing quite well. I do not think that any additional payments are involved. At least we never did that when RHS or RAS were visiting Germany.
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:46:59 +0000:
Tell the TRUTH!
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:45:45 +0000:
Just a follow up: I dont think Paster Bobby was speaking for free. We do know that he traveled to the Netherlands the past last year and for the past several years...Paid air fares? By who? Any Speaking fee's. YES...there was??? We want full disclosure WITH honesty!
Bill Holler @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:34:32 +0000:
Thank you for your positive comments and suggestions. At this moment I cannot be more specific, but I can tell you that some direct contacts are being made today continuing over the coming days. These contacts involve the persons who are in charge now after Sheila and 2x Jim have left the board. The idea behind all this is to evaluate a strategy putting the international HOP back in good shape. For this it will be essential to have the rights on the existing HOP music and televised events. It may be a long shot, but we are working on it. @Rohrflote: Please consider that there might be a difference between being entitled to receiving a certain salary and to actually getting it paid. Considering the lack of funds during the last years I doubt that these payments were actually made.
rohrflote @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:47:14 +0000:
At this point, we can all wait for the final accounting of the sale of Crystal cathedral to hit the bankruptcy court. This hopefully will give us all a clear picture of who got what, without any speculation! This has to be filed with the court in a period of months! We shall see! In the meantime, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see these greedy people, continuing everything status quo! Personally, I DONT care if Robert A. Schuller gets any $$!! I think he received plenty!!! Many others went without as they received there salaries, and continued well after the papers were filed with the court. That DOESN'T sit well with me! But at the same time, if someone is owed Legitimate money, I have no issue with them receiving it!
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:14:50 +0000:
You could also ask Robert H. Schuller or his legal for the official status on who controls RHS Inc. (International HOP) At some point, transfer of title of that Company goes to who? We have our suspicions ...Robert A?
rohrflote @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:58:58 +0000:
Bill: Thank you for the nice comments on the International Germany/ Netherlands website! I read them both last night, as I am fluent in German, Dutch, and Can also make my way through the netherland language. I see they have a trip planned with Robert V. Schuller for one of them if I read correctly, which surprised me. Also I saw that they portray in Germany/ Netherlands as if Robert H. Schuller is going to be preaching the coming sunday, that I found unbelieveable! If all his things were pulled from Hour of Power/ Ministry. Robert Harold, Inc which is Dr. Schuller's corporation might have a seperate agreement as you state, but It makes me wonder if all these people are in conjunction with each other. I see commentaries I read on there web site that show a biography for Jim Penner, Sheila, and Many others that WE just dont see on the United States one. This head of Germany, if He went on the Crystalcathedral.org or hourofpower.org website or went to bing.com and researched he would find for himself that many many articles are seen there which show the events of the bankruptcy. Also on this web site, he could read the various bankruptcy documents which basically outline EVERYTHING that transpired from day one till the sale.
Pasters @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:51:44 +0000:
It is a sad ordeal...And, would strongly suggest looking at the HOP agreements along with the HOP international agreements. The agreements can be very confusing as by separate international legal jurisdictions through the RHS Inc. & the Hour Of Power Inc. With that said, that the Crystal Cathedral board or agreements may be in cancellations...as their ministry is for domestic 501 C (3) Its confusing, however, we would check both internationally and domestically for its legal agreement contracts. Moreover, we do know that Schullers do get paid to travel to these domains and directly speak at the international Hour Of Powers. You could speak more with Paster Bobby Schuller (a long-
Bill, let your heart NOT be troubled. You have done a fine job. You can be proud! As for the current "idiots-
Bill I don't know what is worse. The demise of the place we all held so dear or the behavior of the people we thought were our friends and people we looked up to. Stay strong ! Every dog has his day.
Geoman @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:33:18 +0000:
Suggestion if you haven't done so already. Send Frank Handrich copies of the stories from the L.A.Times and O.C. Register to him and refer him to the internet which is abuzz with everything going on in this criminal mess. If he doesn't open his eyes to the truth from the world, then he's a lost cause anyway. Regarding the intellectual property, actions taken in the US would not necessarily affect what goes on in Europe with regards to the materials.
pinfeather @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:29:26 +0000:
Bill : You are amazing,, I want to thank you from all of us that love the cc and God Bless you and your family.
Bill Holler @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:14:03 +0000:
If you follow this link, you will see that in Germany they still sell everything as before. All the RHS books and stuff. http://www.hourofpower.de/shop1.html (If you can`t understand it, just use the Google translation)
George @ Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:14:48 +0000:
If RHS has withdrawn personally, professionally and materiallly (intellectual property) how is it possible that his image can be used commercially? When the HOP viewers from Germany and the Netherlands want RHS books,or other devotional materials, what are they told? Out of stock? You use the word "sick". I use the word "criminal"!!! Let not your heart be troubled over this -
Bill you are a good man. No one holds you responsible for this stuff. Thanks for the post and I hope you are doing well. Best of luck there.